Glyphosate and the Microbiome

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rpu_bus
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Glyphosate and the Microbiome

Postby rpu_bus » Sat Jun 24, 2017 3:56 pm

I watched a show on Netflix last night ("What's with Wheat") that talked about some stuff I've never seen before. I think it is a fine example of stuff that is too complicated to really understand, but it brings into focus some big questions.

Have a look at this paper, it seems to partly confirm what was in the show as far as I can tell:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3945755/

I don't know how to feel about the Glyphosate situation. The patent for Glyphosate expired in 2000, it is now produced in massive quantity and applied to almost all crops. If its use stopped today it would take decades to exit the food chain, and what would happen to food production. This seems to be a completely f...d up situation.

I still want to eat a cake and pizza from time to time, but without the protection of a healthy microbiome, which is killed by Glyphosate, it sounds like gluten is just going to make me sick. One question I have is how much Glyphosate does it take to undo a healthy microbiome.
Last edited by rpu_bus on Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:29 am, edited 2 times in total.

rpu_bus
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: Glyphosate and the Microbiome

Postby rpu_bus » Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:02 am

I have had IBS for as long as I can remember (I figured it was diverticulosis for most of that time), in 2000 (+ or - a few years) it got so bad I had a CT of my lower gut (colon), which showed nothing actionable.

I have done endless food experiments and found some food groups that helped i.e. nightshade (Potato, Eggplant, Tomato, Peper...), brassica (broccoli, cabbage, kale...). Unfortunately, the problem keeps flaring up, my gut seems to reach its tolerance threshold and then crossing that is... how to put this... disturbing to my serenity.

The idea that Glyphosate may be the thing that my gut is reacting to is making sense. I have noticed that the more I eat from my back yard the better I seem to do. I have been eating a breakfast of green oranges, unripe pomegranates, and figs lately. It does not taste very good, however, my gut has been very happy, and I feel nourished. In truth, the trees need some fruit thinning so I'm just using my mouth as the thinning tool.

Sunday night I went to my friend's house to watch TV and have pizza and wine. Anyway, my IBS threshold was crossed about four hours after eating the pizza, and I started thinking about this Glyphosate stuff. We all known what is in Pizza, it is not health food but why would it trigger a gut attack.

A bit of reading about dairy (cheese) and Glyphosate tells me that the cows provide it in their milk. It was used to grow their feed so plenty is available. One question is won't Glyphosate end up harming some of the cultures used for cheese and yogurt, although clearly many living things are not affected by it. The pizza crust was of course made with wheat sprayed with Glyphosate. Farmers use more than ever because the weeds are becoming resistant, and it is off patent and very cheap. So I am fairly sure that in 2017 pizza is a Glyphosate bomb to my gut microbes, and the ones affected by Glyphosate are very unhappy right now.

https://www.cornucopia.org/2014/03/gut-wrenching-new-studies-reveal-insidious-effects-glyphosate/

Damn it, that has taken twenty-five years to understand. I feel so dumb right now.

Update: wheat is not roundup ready, it turns out that the amount allowed for human consumption was changed in 2013 from 1mg/kg to 13mg/kg. I think someone at the FDA has a really dark sense of hummer, just look at how that number plays. Anyway, I suspect the rule went into effect a little later, but what it does is allow the farmer to use glyphosate as a crop desiccant so they can finish off the grain or beans and then harvest in a more timely way. It all makes sense from a business point of view. By this point in time, the grain FIOF system is probably crapping out flower with the maximum payload of glyphosate.
Last edited by rpu_bus on Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

rpu_bus
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: Glyphosate and the Microbiome

Postby rpu_bus » Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:37 pm

Good lord, there is so much fake news and click bait around glyphosate.

Let's look at one of the better-looking reports I found.

http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/archive/glyphotech.html

Researchers fed hens and goats glyphosate and found glyphosate and its major metabolite AMPA in eggs, milk, and the animals' body tissues.


That is actually fairly damning. At the time of that report, the Acceptable Daily Intake was 1mG/kg.

I see nothing about microbial effects.

rpu_bus
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: Glyphosate and the Microbiome

Postby rpu_bus » Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:09 pm

Any website that is not referencing a reputable source, e.g. orst.edu (which performed testing that was paid for by Monsanto) is trying to create fear or doubt for reasons that should be obvious. Monsanto is not the only outfit that is producing Glyphosate at this point, all of the companies doing so have a lot to lose, and may be liable for damages that are well beyond their ability to pay.

So to sum it up if you see an article about glyphosate in breast milk, walk away from it, the article is just there to create fear. Glyphosate does not look to be harmful to humans, but it is making our microbiome sick and that is not really an issue for a child until they develop their own microbiome. It is more of an issue for the mother if her microbiome is not making enough Neurotransmitters to provide them (apparently most of those are made by the microbiome). I suppose the Glyphosate may impede the development of the child's microbiome. Anyway, the point is fear is a powerful tool to make doubt work well, if Glyphosate is in breast milk who gives a fuck, it is not an actionable, and no company is going to be ruined by finding it, in fact the test done at orst.edu make it a no brainer, if the mom eats something with Glyphosate it will be in her milk. If she eats something with salt it will be in her milk, there is really no doubts about it, but again who cares it is harmless to human children.

What is actionable is the fact that it is harmful to our microbiome, unfortunately, those critters are not protected by any of our laws. We need to tell the lawmakers that those critters need some protection, and that could ruin many companies revenue, though I somewhat doubt any retroactive damages will occur.

rpu_bus
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: Glyphosate and the Microbiome

Postby rpu_bus » Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:39 pm

Think of glyphosate as salt, if you put a pinch in a bucket of water it will dilute down fairly well. That is probably why pinto beans seem to be a friendly food, I soak them over night and dump the water and then cook them and dump that water. There is not much glyphosate salt after that much dilution. Beans are one of the foods I gravitate towards just from the sick, not so sick feedback. I should be able to do that to a ground or shredded meat also I guess. I think the added surface area may allow the salt to go into the water. I don't need to overdo the meats. Farm-raised salmon also triggers the IBS, so I have some doubts that glyphosate is always salt like, or maybe it is something else in salmon.

I will also point out that I already know I will not be sick again until I eat out or visit someone and eat the food they have, so feeling good after eating at home for a few days is normal.

rpu_bus
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: Glyphosate and the Microbiome

Postby rpu_bus » Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:42 pm

Two weeks and no sign of a gut reaction. This is about as long as I have been without such an event in ten years. Even did a road trip to visit my parents, I just avoided things that I consider to be likely to have moderate to high levels of Glyphosate. Corn likely has moderate levels, but it should concentrate more or less as a function of evaporation, so sweaters could have high levels of Glyphosate. Grains like wheat (except rice) are high (13ppm, it is a crop desiccant since 2013 and has increasing popularity), but I'm not sure if any of the processing would include a wash which could lower the amount of the microbe killer in a beer.

So if Glyphosate kills the microbe that gives humans a measure of resistance to gluten being absorbed into the blood, then I suspect that we are all born with celiac disease and it is the development of our microbiome that leads to a measure of resistance from gluten being absorbed into the blood. I also suspect that all other primates are born with celiac disease, and we made friends with the microbe by way of a horrific selection process, but I guess the gluten containing grains were just too good to ignore.

The first thing I read about celiac disease is that it is a problem in the small intestine. To my way of thinking that seems unlikely. Food moves through the small intestine fairly quickly, and some gluten is going to be absorbed during this time because we don't have any inherent protection from the absorption of gluten. The large intestine is where food is held, it feeds the microbes and they make things that are needed. It seems more likely that the large intestine is where gluten absorption would present the greatest problem. I don't want to diminish the idea that gluten is poison to most everything that tries to eat such grains.

Watching "What's with Wheat" again, and I can see that some of the ideas have mutated in my echo chamber. I think this means I do not understand those ideas very well. I will need to watch this a few more times, and try to sort out the ideas that just don't want to make sense.

https://www.netflix.com/title/80175827

rpu_bus
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: Glyphosate and the Microbiome

Postby rpu_bus » Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:03 pm

Had some organic spaghetti last night and a few hours later I had pain in my joints (hands, feet, legs, arms). I had not realized that my Arthritis symptoms had gone missing, but when I saw that organic spaghetti at Wallmart I sure was looking forward to some. I guess my body is making antibodies for the gluten, I had no idea that was going on, well the organic spaghetti can wait for a few months and then I'll try it again. Just to be clear there was no IBS or any noted gut changes, so I think the organic spaghetti is free of Glyphosate.

I keep saying glycine and meaning Glyphosate, why do I have it mixed up...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glyphosate

That is interesting, I somehow have made some correct connections without even looking into how related the two are.

Next, I can't seem to pull the name of the life cycle (Shikimate pathway) that Glyphosate blocks to the surface with ease. Perhaps some reading is needed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shikimate_pathway

That is complicated, but that wiki alone explains why there is growing momentum to remove Glyphosate from the food chain of all animals, how could it not compromise the microbiome of all animals.

rpu_bus
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: Glyphosate and the Microbiome

Postby rpu_bus » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:27 pm

Stephanie Seneff talked on "What's with Wheat" for a few moments. She co authored the first paper I linked which talked about the data correlation between Glyphosate and an unsettling list of conditions.

In this video, Stephanie talks about a lot of topics, many I do not understand, but some I do. One of the main ideas is that Glyphosate may be accidentally substituted for Glycine during construction of proteins. This sounds like it would allow Glyphosate to bio concentrate if the animal could use the resulting protein (e.g. collagen is used as a possible example).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snNRfAfSeUk

On my latest shopping trip (to Walmart), I found USDA organic milk (which I've never got before) and USDA organic oats (which was actually the Walmart brand). The milk was expensive but I just use it with coffee. I looked for cheese but did not see any so I may stop at Wholefoods and look for how much they want for USDA organic cheese. I can live without cheese I guess.

rpu_bus
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: Glyphosate and the Microbiome

Postby rpu_bus » Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:13 pm

Relax and enjoy that wheat desiccated with Glyphosate, let thoughtscapim.com put your mind at ease.

https://thoughtscapism.com/2016/09/07/17-questions-about-glyphosate/

Iida Ruishalme has done a lot of research on this subject as can be seen, and I am just starting to learn about Glyphosate. I can see that Stephanie Seneff is out of her field, and is saying some outrageous things.

All I really know is my gut has been happy, perhaps I just needed to nix the dairy, and grains (except rice) from my diet. In my experience, it has been pointless to experiment with adding some things back because I have done that many times in the past and the gut reaction never happen until I reach a tipping point.

My working theory is based on a swimming pool model, ignoring the food, I sprinkle some Glyphosate salt in and fill the pool every day and take a bucket of water out every evening. After some time the pool reaches equilibrium, where the amount of salt in the bucket taken out is the same as the amount I sprinkle in when filling it. This is actually a fairly high salinity, finding the concentration at any time is a calculus equation. The bucket going out represents going to the bathroom, sweating, and anything else.

The shikimate pathway life cycle involves glycine which I guess is why glycine phosphate messes it up. I am struggling to understand the stuff I am reading, so let me make an analogy to a life cycle I have a better understanding of Oxygen and blood (let's keep it simple). Hemoglobin is a protein in blood that transports oxygen and CO2, it is poisoned by CO. So the analogy is that glyphosate is to the shikimate pathway as carbon monoxide is to hemoglobin.

If an Animal is in a room with some carbon monoxide in the air the animal has to make enough new hemoglobin to offset the loss caused by carbon monoxide poisoning. If the hemoglobin production can not keep up with the loss then that spells big problems. So back to the swimming pool, let's think of that as air with some carbon monoxide. How easy is it for the animal to know it is in trouble, and how will it react when it finally does figure out there is a problem. Also, keep in mind that microbes can have a reaction without a nervous system, anyway this makes the most sense regarding my gut reaction as anything I have considered so far.


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